Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts It would all be sin. You are wrong. You provide no logical proof. That means you should stop pretending that you care what the Bible teaches. The verses which address the wives manifest a certain pattern or structure, which I have attempted to demonstrate above.134 Submission is called for in the first column; the focus of that submission is indicated in the second column, and then the standard is recorded in the third column. Your way is becoming obsolete, thankfully; no woman deserves the fate you want for us. That is why the husband has every right to discipline his wife. He then tempted Adam and Eve to follow in his steps. I have to call my girlfriend's . https://www.ccef.org/resources/blog/desire-shall-husband. Stop falsely accusing your Christian brother. That is if even verbal correction and / with Scripture do not seem to work, but she still keeps on going in disobedience. Calling my arguments childish and immature wouldnt change anything. You WILL find where the Bible explicitly teaches not to add to its Word. Headship of the man is Gods way for marriage. That is silly. The ungodly woman, like the world in which she lives, is obsessed with outward appearances, rather than with inward character (see Matthew 6:1-18; 23:25-26; Luke 16:15). The Bible is JUST as true when it says women keep silent in the churches as when it says He is not here, for He is risen. Every single government which penalized crime would be un-Christian. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control Galatians 5:22-23. How easy it would have been for her to fulfill the appearance of submission. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. I guess parents are all being bad when they do so. from secrecy and victim-blaming to accountability for abusers, I dont see that changing. 140 Silence and submission are linked in 1 Timothy 2:11-12; 1 Peter 2:21-25; and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, as well as in 1 Peter 3. He respected Mr. Ramaswamy's acumen as a businessman worth hundreds of millions of dollars. When you add religion to abuse, you will NEVER get through to these types of men. It is for their good, and the good of the home. We dont need more men abusing women and calling it disciplining their wives. There is a world of difference between submission and subjection. You have no basis to accuse them of wrong. So its an uphill battle. The Church is losing people every year (in the West) because of unbelief in the Bible, and because of liberal Christianity. The satisfaction and enjoyment of seeing her, the person he owns, his property, become the thing God wants her to be. Go read Revelation. It doesnt make sense when a woman thinks that unless her husband beats her, he doesnt love her. Its a joke. What Does the Bible Say About Disrespectful Wife? - OpenBible.info You have more violent men because of broken homes and fatherless families. There is another way in which surrender will be accomplished in the future, and this was is subjection. If she doesnt respect your authority, then go into marriage counseling at the church. Husband and wife Clint and Chelsea have defined Domestic Discipline as, "an arrangement between two adults who share the belief that the husband is the head of the household and with that position comes the right to enforce his authority." They see the husband exercising his authority when he disciplines his wife and this belief is shared by both. Man is the authority, so man is the one to apply that in the home, and discipline those under him. 5:22-24). If you m. My website is not about male violence. When God confronted Moses for his disobedience (or perhaps his wife's) in failing to circumcise his son, (as a sign of obedience to God's Covenant), Moses' life was in danger. Feminism has led to more divorce. Arguing with him is pointless. The man is the authority, like any other. Of course it does. 1 John 5:2. Read Revelation one more time. The fact its not mandated specifically for wives is irrelevant. Bible verses related to Disobedient Wives from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance. You are the one being unChristian. Your arguments are empty, and come from your personal feelings. How to discipline your disobedient wife, according to the bible (2 To rebel against her husband, or abandon the home, is sin. Women need mens love, leadership, and protection, They flourish under it. I dont believe that a man should strike his wife even if it is done out of love. It makes no sense at all. Nowhere does the Bible condone of giving your children a bedtime. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. I am sorry to say, but it is impossible to know if millions practice this, if true harm is rare. She pours her energy into nurturing and training her children, and prays for them daily. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. He and his wife went into the library and everyone heard her getting spanked, pleading for him to stop and promising to be a good girl. Are governments who punish criminals unloving? Not a woman on welfare with children with no father, or an old woman with two dogs. Look up what people who have left say. His treatment of her was abusive and degrading. Divorce skyrocketed. We just mistake the Creator's voice for our own. Press J to jump to the feed. Many will not marry without a signed legal agreement first. No, they dont and youre right. This was not because there were no exceptions (see Matthew 5:32), but because undue attention to the exceptions would weaken the rule. Youve got to twist it to suit your desires. They are won to obedience, which may or may not include salvation. Notice the central and common element in all three statements: Christ. The second example of submission is found in the appearance and demeanor of the wife. Your claims have been refuted. Unless a husband regularly inflicts corporal punishment on himself, there is no reason to use this passage to justify inflicting it upon his wife. If anything, we ought to be accusing the man of being a slave, not the other way around. Then, lets consider a definition of passivity in a husband. Thanks for your comment, Mick. But these men dont know how to lead their families without physical violence. A wifes submission to her husband is modeled after the churchs submission to Christ, while her husbands submission is to be modeled after Christs headship over the church. The husband should do a good job of being in charge of his wife and family, by guiding them to that which is in their best interests and will bring them happiness. Moreover, Scripture mandates corporal punishment clearly multiple times, so we know for a fact that spanking is not inherently wrong. They have little purpose. What about humiliating and demeaning her? Tell me God is lacking in the Spirit or lacking in love because He punishes evil, and at times does so harshly. Do you not see women as people? I dont see how theres any denying that. A husband has biblical mandate that gives him authority. You just do not like that you are unable to show that spanking is wrong, and that you have ZERO passages from the Bible on your side. Claiming that my arguments are empty and attacking me personally isnt going to change the fact that domestic discipline is not biblical. In comparing these behaviors to those often associated with domestic violence, it is difficult to distinguish one from the other. However what about verses 25-29 where husbands are called to love their wives as themselves? And by this appearance of submission she would have been rid of this man who was a fool. Nor can you redefine scourging as something gentle. By Sunshyne | June 12, 2018 | 58 SAVE THIS PIN FOR LATER! 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christthis Jesus whom you crucified (Acts 2:22-23, 32-36). Spanking isnt bad. Parents cannot punish their children, because parents break the rules sometimes too. The New Testament teaches the goodness of chastisement, which is only for a short time, but bears the fruit of righteousness. That means you should stop making the claim. Moreover, God himself, and Christ, promise to punish those they love. 3 Types of Disobedient Christians - Crosswalk Right now, you and all the other husbands who practice CDD and DD are deceiving yourselves. That means you need to accept that punishment is in full harmony with love. Cant a husband lovingly chastise his wife without spanking her? Opinions are opinions; however, you arent wrong in a lot of your comment, until you get to the end. It is just, because the offender did evil, and deserves to be punished. THERE is an actual biblical sin for you. Added to that it is far easier for women to leave an abusive house if she is not trapped in the way you wish more women would be. Men are just as vulnerable, certainly of having their money and children stolen, with little legal recourse if that happens, and are also vulnerable to the violence that the contemporary female does. Hes the opposite of passive. No abusive man will ever admit what they do is actual abuse. The mandate we have is through the mans authority. The stories are about real people who made mistakes but from whom we can learn. Thats what discipline provides and it is good. The stories in Genesis came from a very patriarchal source and I do not believe they are to be taken literally. To submit to one another necessitates that we die daily, that our flesh by crucified, put to death. Hallelujah. This is all in addition to being (physically) weaker. Ive seen your site discussed on Reddit, and they were just as horrified as I was. The fact that God did not only punish Eve, but also Adam, is irrelevant to whether husbands can discipline their wives, through spanking or otherwise. It isnt of God, no matter what those who practice it try to justify their actions by going as far as using Gods Word to do so. Here is what Faith Trust Institute had to say on their website: As faith leaders concerned with issues of violence and abuse, we stand against belief systems that use religious language and misuse religious texts in order to justify harmful behavior. You are a feminist, and you need to understand that your worldview is faulty. The submission of wives to their husbands is equated to their submission to Christ. It is only from a patriarchal source if you consider God to be patriarchal. Gods way in marriage treats women right. For what son is not disciplined by his father? We give glory to God in all that we do together as a couple and as a family. This primarily means he is to provide spiritual leadership Ephesians 5:25-28), provide the financial needs for his family (1 Timothy 5:8) and manage his household well (1 Timothy 3:4-5). Of course Gods law applies to men as well as to women. You are going to have to rely on trust no matter whom you marry. Another talked about having his wife stand on a pad during spanking and corner time because she is so bladder incontinent she leaks badly after a spanking. You come off as very combative and self-righteous in your replies. The man is the head of the woman, not her dictator. Everything I have said is in reference to Gods Word. In this lesson, we will devote our attention to the duty of the wife to submit to her husband, a reflection of the submission of the church to Christ. Contemporary marriage is a disaster in the West, and anyone representing those values has no business lecturing anyone on marriage and the family. NIV Titus 1:6 An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient . Loving discipline shows the fruit of the Spirit, despite your gross misrepresentation of it. I also have many interactions with my readers, some of whom I know are sincere, and whom I have gotten to know over an extended time. Let me illustrate what I am saying from the life of a very godly woman, whose name was Abigail, as found in 1 Samuel chapter 25. You need to step back from your favorite pursuits, and look at the whole truth. Once in marriage, this question must be laid aside. That authority is given by God. It is sexual perversion. Every individual deserves respect in their relationships and the ability to live without fear and coercion in their home, community, and place of worship. If you have read Lamentations, the Torah, Revelation, the prophets, then you KNOW that the chastisement of God, His scourging, is not simply a mild affair. Ive worked with many couples to help start discipline in their marriage, whether present or future, and seen them better their lives in other ways besides that. In Part Two, we will consider how a counselor might best counsel the wife of a passive husband, relying heavily on 1 Thessalonians 5:14, Ephesians 5:22-32, 1 Peter 3:1-7, and passages dealing with anger, self-pity, fear, loneliness, and hope. He also endorses it as civic punishment, a form of whipping generally more severe than what a wife will encounter. . Abigail knew that her husband has refused to give David what he had asked for. Are governments who arrest men, and send them to prison, breaking up their family, costing them their job, and exposing them to repeated violent assault unloving? Its sad when women begin to equate abuse with love. Men doing their jobs, as leaders, could turn this around in a single generation. 3:4). It requires the submission of a wife to her own husband. Nowhere in the Bible does it condone or approve of a husband spanking his wife. 10 Women of the Bible NOT to Be Like - Crosswalk You dont get to write your own Bible, made up of your opinions and your personal desires. Submission is placing yourself under another. Its all truth. Secular values, including feminism and the destruction of the family, are close to the heart of what has occurred. Its a consensual fetish. You can try all you like to turn the tables like an immature adolescent but the behavior that the Bible condemns is not spanking, but much of what a wife does that gets her spanked in the first place. Discipline is not abuse as you slanderously charge, but is a normal form of correction. Her refusal of affection is abuse. A Christian marriage is not. The same exclusiveness can be seen in the practice of love. We are to love everyone, including our enemy, our neighbor, and our brothers in Christ. The Bible gives them authority, so they may use that authority as they see fit, while not sinning. The Bible teaches that we ought to love our neighbor as ourselves. Yet the false independence you glorify, has led to the destruction of the family, and the destruction of formerly Christian civilization. The Bible teaches what a marital relationship should be like but these men have twisted it into something that is of the devil and not of God. You cite Scripture only to deny it again a thousand times over. This is Gods work, and we must cooperate with Him as He does it. God makes those choices, and you choose to ignore them to your great harm. I believe that the difficulty we find in defining submission is due, in part, to the fact that while submission is the same in its essence, it may differ greatly in its expression, depending on the context it is found. Men and women are created in Gods image equally, but the man is the head. Her only silver lining she told me is her son has stopped using DD in his marriage, due to how mortified he is about what has happened to his mom. One article described it as a movement in the Christian community. New Living Translation An elder must live a blameless life. Related Topics: Christian Home, Fellowship, Marriage, Women, Robert L. (Bob)Deffinbaugh graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary with his Th.M. (Bemidji, MN: Focus Publishing, 2002), 117-118. Marriage is a partnership with mutual love and respect. So you need to stop judging your brother, and try being humble. Moreover, it is also that spanking has never been limited to children historically, or in the Bible. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? Seeing as you have been completely unsuccessful at showing that spanking is wrong, your only route left is to immaturely lash out in any direction you can. Youre just looking for a reason to complain. In this we are all rewarded. Relationship between husband and wife. We dont make doctrines out of our opinions. God is love according to Scripture. In a similar text in 1 Peter 3:1-7, the submission of the wife is required even if the husband is disobedient to the word (3:1).139 For the wife to submit, her husband does not have to be intelligent, wise, or a spiritual leader. The fact that he is her husband is the only qualification given. Sources: Domestic Discipline Online; Daily Mail; The Daily Beast; Aeon; The Daily Mail; Very Well Mind. Do parents need to show a mandate in the Bible in order to have a bedtime for their children? ALL people are taught to love one another, not just husbands and wives. There are not restrictions specified or implied as to the scope of her submission to her husband. You look to countries and religions where domestic violence is more hush hush. True Christians dont practice this nonsense. In fact, he expresses concern that it might embolden counselors to make hasty decisions concerning the woman before they understand her. Marriages that use spanking involve love, they involve communication, they involve the shared joys of marriage. This is also clear in Genesis itself. These wives who are actually their husbands victims, need to know that God would never punish them for refusing to be beaten. His children must be believers. They care more for personal holiness and for modesty. What is abusive is attacking male authority, threatening divorce (which God calls bloody violence and which leaves trauma down entire generations), and misleading generations of young people about how marriage works. And the same law you mentioned that we ought to obey is the same law which will have a problem with domestic discipline. All authorities have a right to discipline those under them. I can point you to passages that prohibit her lying, her disobedience, her lack of affection, her negligence, and more. She must grow in faith, trusting that God is leading her and sanctifying her, not only when her husband plays his role well, but when he does not. 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. What about when he has her stand naked in a corner, facing a wall, in pain until he decides that she has learned her lesson? Again, why so much focus on female violence. The dynamic created by the CDD lifestyle is one of power and control where the husband acts as Head of Household and exercises total control and authority over the wifes daily activities and decisions, enforcing strict rules that, if broken, result in corporeal punishment. Husbands certainly have a right to discipline their wives, because they are the authority over them. So you need to realize how poor your argument is and stop making it. You simply close your eyes to the facts to continue in your fantasy. You claim you cannot trust men, yet in the era in which you claim men were horrible and violent, they did a MUCH better job of protecting women. So unless the fundies/evangelics start changing their M.O. This man not only knew about submission, he was committed to practice it. The modern egalitarian woman is incredibly vulnerable. Counseling the Wife of a Passive Husband, Part One Do we think we are any different than he, in the final analysis? Similarly, a husband can command a woman to stand on the kitchen table for 48 hours in order to train her to be more submissive. Not many people will agree that domestic discipline is a good thing. He must be faithful to his wife. It does not provide us with clever techniques for proper submission. That is sin. I completely agree with you. It is you who lack self-control, by letting your emotions move you to judge your brother, and by ignoring the Word of God itself. Her rejection of intimacy is wrong. If I need a passage mandating spanking in order to spank, show me a passage mandating bedtimes for children. It does not have a list of duties. Quoting Paul about dwelling in understanding, and honoring a wife as the weaker vessel offers no proof of your ridiculous claims. We need more men disciplining their wives, as many already do, and not less. Your unjust accusations are sin. Joanna, As I have said, and will repeat until you learn, you have made the accusation that spanking in marriage is wrong. Husbands love (not discipline) their wives and wives submit to their husbands. A wifes sacrifice in marriage, just as her husbands sacrifice, is GOOD. He said, "I may be sitting on the outside, but I'm standing on the inside." That's defiance, not submission. If you are a feminist, you should stop playing the hypocrite. I am relieved to see others calling CDD what it is: abuse. Boundaries, assertiveness, good self-worth and financial autonomy help with that, all things you preach against for women. From a related passage in 1 Peter chapter 3, we can identify three examples of the wifes submission, as outlined by Peter: 1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. We know our husbands love us and cherish us, and we love and cherish them. I stand up for myself against false accusations, and ignorant insults from people like you. Id take a modestly dressed young woman, who is discreet and pure, who may have been exposed to BIll Gothard, over a drugged up, suicidal, secular child who does not even who what sex he is, and for whom fornication is truly normal. Man and wifes body belongs to each through being one flesh. You come off as a fetishist who gets thrills writing about women getting humbled/adults having no autonomy/thinking of a man as a king/her salty tears and gasping pained replies. It places women under much more stress, and in much more danger, and turns her into a much more impure creature. Love, Trust, Respect and Obey - Domestic Discipline Online The divinely appointed role of marriage as a symbol of Christ and the church is therefore the basis for the attitudes and behavior of both the husband and the wife. They only need the basic authority to do it. Love is not controlling. You may not personally think that spanking falls under the mans headship, but you dont have a right to judge other Christians based on that personal opinion. The fall brought strain between the sexes. Even after a husband was given authority over his wife, men were told to love their wives as themselves. David was greatly angered, and set out to kill not only Nabal, but every male associated with his household. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Yet the culture in general and feminists in particular push back against biblical submission, providing objections such as, Is the woman just supposed to let her husband walk all over her? But Scripture does not espouse doormat theology, or total submission (as in the case where a husband asks his wife to sin). I'm in need of prayer and answers. The marriages that are truly unloving and unChristian are ones broken by the bloodshed of divorce, ended so one partner can depart and marry another, filled with the tumult of a wife who disrespects and argues with her husband, made up of fighting or coldness, lacking in physical intimacy, and lacking in children on purpose. I see no reason to think that standing in the corner for punishment is unloving. 3:2). Then and now, adults have fewer issues with the idea that correction can be used toward a child than with a wife, so surely, spelling it out would have been necessary in the wifes case, if thats what God wanted, and not in the childs. You have not showed either from Scripture or logic that spanking is essentially wrong. A submissive wife acknowledges she has a different God-given role than her husband. That would mean, by your logic, nearly everyone in authority is being BAAAD because they dont have any explicit teaching. The fact that men have a responsibility to those under them does not mean they are not the heads, nor that they cannot punish their wives. Your answer assumes that having as much knowledge as possible is a good thing, or that being independent is a good thing, or that being in control is a good thing. Where is the evidence? Nevertheless, Abigail went out to meet David, along with the gifts which David had asked for. [3] Martha Peace, Counseling Women in Problem Christian Marriages, in Women Helping Women: A Biblical Guide to the Major Issues Women Face, Elyse Fitzpatrick and Carol Cornish, Eds.