Pastor John traces a key distinction between godly and ungodly praise. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. Her funeral may be the means by which several of her unconverted relatives, for whom she has been praying, will come to faith conversions for which she would happily give her life. It is easy to think of passages in which God sends catastrophic judgment in a purely retributive way, without an ounce of cleansing discipline (e.g., the destruction and death of Saul,for whom Samuel was ordered to cease praying). On the other hand, as Hunter points out, texts like John 9:3 intend to teach us not to assume that every affliction is directly a response to some particular sin in our life, but that sometimes we are being given in our affliction an opportunity to magnify the grace of God through faith and patience and love. When God lovingly disciplines us, we can better see how God is shaping us to be more Christlike. It is easy to think of passages where suffering is clearlynotdeserved for any direct offense, and where the only explanation given is not so much an explanation as a powerful appeal to trust the living God whose power and knowledge are infinitely greater than ours (Job). (Hebrews 12:11, NKJV), For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.(Hebrews 12:6, ESV). What does it mean to be chastened? So my question is this: When God brings suffering into our lives, how can we discern if that suffering should be met with patience and endurance, or with immediate life evaluation and alteration?. "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. Shes hurt, and I am mad as all get out, and to kill time I pick up the garbage and take it outside to put it by the street because it is garbage pick-up day. When Christians sin, does God punish them? - Biblword.net We shared how pruning benefits the plant and the Christian to yield more fruit. 7. My meditations dove deeper into pruning, discipline, chastisement, and chastening. Why doesnt he bring us to the greatest holiness with no painful discipline? ' There you concluded that some instances of suffering, including weakness, illness, and death, represent direct judgments of God for our sin intended to discipline us and bring us to repentance and restoration. . But later it produces the fruit of peace and righteousness for those trained by it." God's discipline assures us that we are His spiritual children, genuine members of His family (Hebrews 12:7-8) God's discipline enhances our spiritual life (Hebrews 12:9) God's discipline enables us to share His holiness (Hebrews 12:10) God's discipline yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness (Hebrews 12:11). 2) "But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned with the world." The discipline of God. God's discipline shows He loves us and knows what's best for us. Hebrews 12:6-7 reads: For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives. It was Gods way of giving Job the opportunity to show the value of God over his health, over his family, over his prosperity. It says, Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord [meaning the Lords supper] in an unworthy manner [I take this to mean a cavalier, minimizing, unbelieving, careless way] will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord (1 Corinthians 11:27). As Christ of course, "paid it all". A sweet breeze was blowing on my face. Punish: to subject to pain, loss, confinement, death, etc., as a penalty for some offense, transgression, or fault: to punish a criminal. In other words, if you treat lightly and disrespectfully and irreverently the precious emblems of the Lords crucifixion, youre showing that you dont cherish and tremble at the horror and preciousness of the real crucifixion. So why should we think in antithetical terms about how God must be doingthisbut notthat,when in reality he may be doingthisandthatandthat, andthatand. Here is what I mean. Help TGC bring biblical wisdom to the confusing issues across the world by making a gift to our international work. Please make sure all fields are filled out. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Does God use attacks by Satan as a method of disciplining us? Carson is the co-founder and president of The Gospel Coalition. On the one hand, he may discern a specific pattern of sin in our lives to which he directly responds with some kind of trouble or suffering in our lives to wake us up, and refine us, and to heal us, and to bring us to repentance because he loves us. It would be easy to list other passages with variations on these themes. A: We alone are responsible for our own sins, and we alone are accountable to God for what we've done (or failed to do). God knows the best way to bring about in his children (1) a love for his absolute holiness, (2) a hatred of our bent to sinning, (3) gratitude for his amazing grace and patience in our lives, and (4) a passion to trust him in every circumstance of life. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. How Can I Lead a Quiet Life When My Job Requires Self-Promotion? If he never repents and submits to God, he may be one of those represented by the seed sown on the rocky soil ( Luke 8:13 ). How does God discipline us? Do you believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, or is it okay to just make stuff up and believe in a god of your own imagination? I see this in passages like 1 Corinthians 11:30-32. (Full Guide). Because He loves us, He disciplines in response to our disobedience and rebellion. Now, let me illustrate what Im talking about. Answer For believers in Jesus, all our sinpast, present, and futurehas already been judged on the cross. When we sin, or if we continually sin without repentance, God may rightly choose to discipline us, but it will be for our own good. No, Gods discipline is not intended to cause us lasting harm or to crush our spirit. For 33 years, he served as pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. What are the books of 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras? Is it Gods punishment?) Hebrews 12:8 - God Disciplines His Sons All of our resources exist to guide you toward everlasting joy in Jesus Christ. Hebrews 12:6, he disciplines those whom he loves. All of our resources exist to guide you toward everlasting joy in Jesus Christ. 4 Things to Remember after You Have Sinned | Core Christianity They explained why they were sad, and Jesus rebuked them for being slow to believe. Gods discipline is not necessarily based on the severity of our sins but rather on His loving desire to draw us closer to Him. Have you ever confused Godly discipline and judgment? Try this or that drug, won't hurt. Christian Truth. What does the Bible say about selfishness? Jesus restored and strengthened their faith by exhorting them to believe the scripture and teaching them from the same. Now, I dont think Im making this up, this merging of these two. Vivian loves learning, studying the Word of God, and helping others in their walk with Christ. This principle of reaping what you sow should bring us restraint (Gal. Is it God's punishment?) Absolutely. But when we are judged by the Lord [that is, judged with weakness or sickness or death], we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world (1 Corinthians 11:3132). . So there is a massive difference between God's discipline of us when we have wandered in unrepentant sin on the one hand and God's punishment of us for that sin as a way of excluding us from his presence and experiencing his eternal wrath. We are doing something we shouldnt be doing, God sees something defective in our life, and what does he do? Job, remember, was described in the very first verse of the book as being an upright man and blameless. He is author of. Discipline takes place when we sin and God chastises us. In James 1:24, James says. However, unconfessed sin and failure to advance spiritually can bring God's discipline. What does the Bible say about discipline? (Moreover, what about hardships that happen to unbelievers? We posed this question to D. A. Carson, professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, Illinois, and author of many books, includingHow Long, O Lord? Yes, he does chastise usbecause he loves us. When, how, and why does the Lord God discipline us when we sin? He may be preparing her for eternity: it is a great grace to know when you are going to die, and prepare for it. 6:7). Even if it were, the remedy is always the same: flee to the Cross, and trust our good and gracious and holy God. He has edited and authored numerous books. God's discipline teaches us which choices are healthy for our hearts and which ones will hurt us. One time I got really mad at Noel, because I found a whole crate of rotten pears in the garage. 15 I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. You are using an out of date browser. . And it broke me like nothing else. God will use testing, trials, and . Our deepest, truest joy does not flow from completed degrees or flourishing ministries, but from the God who saved us. We live in a fallen world, and decay and sickness and death are the result. He was always on their case, spanking and criticizing and speaking ugly words. He may use her testimony about the joy of the Lord even in the midst of suffering to call another of her children into vocational ministry. It is an opportunity for us to draw closer to Him, learn from our mistakes, and experience the abundant grace and forgiveness that He offers. Growth in Life Article Index | GotQuestions.org Now, before I try to answer that, lets be sure that we see how sweeping this question is. Why should I trust in God and how can I learn to trust in Him? Lesson 45: God's Loving Discipline (Hebrews 12:4-6) Daily sin is handled by means of confession directly to the Lord, who always forgives (1 John 1:9). He is learning at each stage the actual implementation of his obedient heart in acts of obedience. Don't just crucify your sin, crucify your faith! Affiliate disclosure: As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases on Amazon.com. Hi and welcome to NCESC.com, the home of all the employment information you could ever need. In other words, Im suggesting to Hunter that, in the end, knowing for sure which of these two ways of being treated by God is happening to us is not essential to living as we ought. Is God Angry at Me When I Sin? Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present but painful; nevertheless, afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. We shouldnt second-guess him. Out of his goodness he is always doing things for our good, both gentle and hard things. Omniscient God - "When, why, and how does the Lord God | Facebook Regardless of whether God actively inflicts an illness or passively allows it, we can see His ultimate purposes: to bring glory to Himself and to reveal His nature to us. It is a very good question, and its demanded by 1 Corinthian 11:2732. I know God disciplines me, because the Bible tells me so. Although we can never completely avoid Gods discipline because of our imperfect nature, we can lessen the need for it by cultivating a heart that is surrendered to God, actively pursuing righteousness, and regularly seeking His guidance through prayer and studying His Word. Why doesnt he just say, Read your Bible and pray and be holy and no painful discipline at all? Over time, we can learn to recognize and accept that God's discipline happens for our own good. Were on a mission to change that. Hebrews 12:7-11 ESV - It is for discipline that When, how, and why does the Lord God discipline us when we sin? God is treating you as sons. encourage healthy Christian community for teens. And so he is calling for us to have greater faith and greater humility. So, lets be careful that we dont decide whats best and tell him how to do it. If you're hearing a voice speaking back when you pray, it might be the Lord, but how would you even know if you're not at least familiar with what He's said in His written word. For just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. Because he is not done with us yet. Thats the gist of the question. It would be nice if our sin nature disappeared when we received salvation, but it doesn't work that way. And the aim in every trial is a kind of steadfastness that shows that God is trustworthy, and wise, and good, and valuable, and all-sufficient for our situation. Another meaning of punishment is to discipline, and we know that God disciplines those whom he loves (Hebrews 12:6; Revelation 3:19). Does God punish us when we sin? - Employment Security Commission - NCESC Required fields are marked *. We are working every day to make sure our community is one of the best. When it says he learned obedience, it means he moved as he grew from one degree of obedience to another. (Isaiah 55:9, NLT). What does the omniscient God think he is doing? The big question is; what is a natural consequence of our sin and what is Gods disciplinary role? If the sin is known, kill it. Im thinking especially of your special episode How Do We Make Sense of the Coronavirus? There you concluded that some instances of suffering, including weakness, illness, and death, represent direct judgments of God for our sin intended to discipline us and bring us to repentance and restoration. In Romans 2:4 it says, Dont you know that the kindness of God is meant to lead you to repentance? So now here you have God using another method besides spanking or suffering to bring us to repentance. Well, lets see if God was using His wrath as a teacher. READ MORE. 6. He may be shocking her 20-something son, who is living his life indifferent to the gospel, to prod him into self-examination and repentance. Aspiring writer and the guy behind https://thomasmcdaniels.com/ Twitter freak daily at https://twitter.com/ThomasMcDaniels. It really comes down to one thing. My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline or be weary of his reproof, for the LORD reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights. ): to punish theft. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. In the New Testament, God works in his people to keep them pursuing holiness, at least to the measure that they have (1 Corinthians 15:10; Philippians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:11; Hebrews 13:21; 1 Peter 1:5). Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress. Does God punish us when we sin? Now, some of those trials may be owing to specific sins in our lives, and others of those trials may not be. Overall, when we sin, Gods discipline is an act of love that aims at our spiritual growth and restoration. And God gives Satan permission to beat up on him. From such diverse passages, we should draw at least three important inferences with substantial pastoral implications. But he may not. Have you ever thought you were receiving Gods wrath? If he takes our life, hes loving us. 2 Corinthians 4:4 says that the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, so they will not see the CARM is a nonprofit, non-denominational, multi-staffed Christian Apologetics Ministry that supports evangelism, radio outreach, and provides full-time support for several foreign missionaries. And it wasnt because Job was acting in any overt, sinful way that needed discipline, but it did turn out in the end that Job had some sediment of pride at the bottom of his life that got jostled up into that beaker of life. Unlike punishment, which aims to solely inflict suffering as retribution, Gods discipline is rooted in His love and seeks to correct and restore us. only one timeyou could lose that and much more, your life. Hello, Pastor John! Praying is a combination of speaking to the Lord and listening to the Lord. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. So there are three levels of severity, it sounds like: weakness, sickness, and death. I think Job is an illustration of what Im trying to get across namely, that even the suffering that comes into our lives as an opportunity for the demonstration of Gods worth through faith and patience nevertheless always has the secondary design to take our sanctification deeper. Do you believe that too? It is a token of His adoption of us as children. We all know God forgives us. He is patient and kind and lets us go through life as we, hopefully, seek to be more like Christ. Hebrews 12:7-10 Commentary | Precept Austin . Our deepest, truest joy does not flow from completed degrees or flourishing ministries, but from the God who saved us. Box 1353 |Nampa, ID 83653 USA1-800-803-8093, If you have any issues, please call the office at 385-246-1048 or email us at. We need to know the difference! She had forgotten this fruit she had bought, and it had just rotted in the garage. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. For this article, we're going to refer to God's discipline rather than punishment, because, now that we've been saved from eternal punishment for our sins, we are currently in the phase of learning to live life in better ways. Here's my synthesis: God's punitive anger that is, his punishing or condemning anger is completely absorbed by Christ when he died. ( Prov. When Satan asked God for permission to hurt Job, the context was that Job was a blameless man (Job 1:1) meaning that the sufferings that came to him were not disciplinary as a response to some sin that he was walking in. Does God punish us when we sin? : r/Christians 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? While both can serve as moments of growth, trials are not necessarily a direct result of our specific sins. by Matt Slick | Jun 9, 2015 | God, Questions, Does God punish us when we sin? 4:4. Is suffering for Christ always going to be a part of being a follower of Christ? If it is unknown, ask the Lord to protect you, to cleanse you from hidden faults (like the psalmists do, Psalm 19:12; 139:2324), and to advance your capacities for faith and patience. However, Gods discipline equips us and helps us grow in maturity and holiness throughout our journey of faith. This kind of punishment will never happen to the one who has faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. I just cried, because God was kissing me on the cheek after that rotten attitude. Made with in California 2023. It would seem to me that if we listen to the Lord, we will learn things. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. But he is trustworthy; we know that, for he sent his Son to suffer on our behalf. The difference between discipline and punishment is in the end goal. I think my final underline answer to the person who asks, Well, then how do I know if I am being disciplined? is when they are really asking, How do I know if I have sinned? And the answer to that is: Read your Bible. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? Later in the New Testament God permitted Satan to test Jesus but we know that Jesus overcame by the word of God ( Matthew 4:1-11 ). How does Gods discipline differ from punishment? He and his wife, Joy, have two children. New Season Prophetic Prayers and Declarations [NSPPD] || 3rd Pastor John, thank you for your honest answer about the pandemic this year. Why Does God Discipline Some Christians with Death? For some, its death. Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy? 2. God Disciplines His Sons 7 Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. Sometimes he treats you way better than you deserve, and sometimes he spanks you in order to bring it to your attention but you cant tell which it is. 10. He loves us too much to allow us to remain in our sin. With God's help, we can repent from painful choices and learn to make beneficial ones instead. We believe that faithful proclamation of the gospel is what our hostile and disoriented world needs. In some traditions, it is believed that God directly inflicts punishment upon sinners through calamities, diseases, or misfortunes. God doesn't always swiftly send His judgment immediately after we sin. If a Christian gets the flu, or a cold, or cancer, or gets in a car crash, or loses a job should these hardships be seen as God's discipline? 8 If you are never disciplined (and every child must be disciplined), you are not true children. Learned obedience? Lets face it: sin is unavoidable. Does God Discipline Us When We Sin? - Christianity Board God will no longer punish us for our sins, but He will discipline us as any loving parent will do ( Proverbs 3:11-12 ). Does God promise to not give us more than we can handle? Jesus already suffered the punishment for our sins while on the cross (Isaiah 53:5). He may be using her as a way to teach people in her church what it looks like to die well, anticipating several other deaths in the next two years. But He answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. . How can we celebrate the good we see without succumbing to flattery? How important is spiritual growth in Christian life? 4. Fr. Jerry Orbos, SVD - LIVE NOW: HOLY MASS 9:30AM When we indulge in sinful behavior repeatedly or disobey God's commands, we're actively rebelling against God. God disciplines His children, but He does not condemn them. And I went in to her, and I said, What is with the pears?. The difference between discipline and punishment is in the end goal. What excites a Christian most? And I stopped and cried. The other is to fear that we are being condemned and not being treated as the children of God. We need all the encouragement we can get from the Scriptures to believe that he is our Father, and that he will never cast us away, and that afflictions are for our good. And so what we need to remember is that we are always loved. Pastor John traces a key distinction between godly and ungodly praise. We Feel Guilty. You are just an idiot. His discipline is not driven by punishment but by His desire for our spiritual growth and restoration. This, I think, will prove true for all of us. John Piper is founder and teacher of desiringGod.org and chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary. Every situation can be an opportunity for spiritual growth and learning. He bore our sin. All rights reserved. 8 If you do not experience discipline like everyone else, then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. That was done once for all: "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" ( Romans 8:1 ). As King David said in Psalm 32, discipline causes us to confess our sin, repent, and act in obedience to God. It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?. Hebrews 12 reminds us of our place in the family of God as children who have been redeemed by Jesus Christ and our faith, and we have been placed in Him to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. The needs of the world overwhelm me. Cheat on your spouse, again, could lose a marriage. The essence is this: let every trial have its sanctifying effect of killing sin, and furthering faith, and furthering patience, and furthering love. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. For Gods children, know that discipline is always ever in love. The eternal punishment is damnation, or the casting of the person into hell forever (Matthew 8:12; 25:30; Revelation 14:11; 20:10). Romans 8:1 makes this clear:. Other times they dont. Alyssa Roat Contributing Writer Jul 26, 2019 Gods discipline is often discernible through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the consequences of our sinful actions, feelings of unrest or guilt, and a deep sense of needing to repent and reconcile with God. Subscribe to the CompellingTruth.org Newsletter: Does God discipline us? What is chastening? How does God chasten us? So, if we were to say the punishment is a kind of discipline, then all Christians are punished because we are all corrected by God one way or another. 9 We have all had fathers here on earth who disciplined us, and we respected them. So God could have prevented the desecration of the Lords Supper and, thus, the discipline that he brings on those who desecrate it. My little brain can imagine several possibilities. But eventually our determination to leave God out of our lives will catch up with us. Gods children do not receive the wrath of God, and Gods wrath was poured out on Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Social media nerd. How can we avoid or lessen the need for Gods discipline? Why Is the Discipline of God a Blessing? - Christianity Find out about Bible & Theology events at TGC23. 2. to inflict a penalty for (an offense, fault, etc. If he spanks, if he brings any kind of hardship into our life, it is with measured, careful, wise, loving application of his wisdom and his grace to our situation. Always. 1 Corinthians 11:30 is one description of that discipline that we just read from Hebrews 12. But God wants better for us than the fate of rebellious angels. Punishment seeks to inflict retribution for wrongdoing. Does God Punish Us for Our Sins? Does God discipline us? Why, when, and how does the Lord discipline His 9 Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him.