These are two very different types of things that just look the same from the outside. and at the way some Christian moralists carry on, i can understand why some folks wouldnt want to get to know Jesus. I think youre off about me. When this happens they have rejected the only opportunity for forgiveness. We are also told that God is righteous. None of us exist independently of God. It just means people have and use their free will. And thats not meant as a challenge at all; you certainly have a right not to be inspired by God or anything else. Rather cruel, no? In matters of faith, doesnt the fact of trying especially as you describe it make you a faithful believer? It would click, not that I assume its all come easy, rather you make it sound like it would be. In theory, if our design is, indeed, intelligent enough, I never have to visit the construction site or finished hotel. This is a wily and deceitful god that should not be followed at all. For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me; When Jesus was being crucified, Peter denied Jesus 3 times yet Christ later made him the foundation of His church. What sincere, adequate, accurate faith would you call immature? And I didnt know who I was praying to. I pursued Christian theology and history. By claiming that the Christianity of leavers was immature you are making that claim, whether you desire to own up to it or not. He offered them something society tended not to, acceptance. People hurt each other whether or not they believe in God (Yahweh, Allah, Buddha, polytheism, etc.). I feel like this response has lots of really big holes that feel concerning to me and I want to be honest about that. I cant remember how many times God and i have had it out (in much less dramatic fashion) and Ive walked away feeling more sure than ever of Him. So in the Bible Jesus names one sinand one sin onlythat cannot be forgiven. Explore the world's faith through different perspectives on religion and spirituality! What does it mean to know God? God's forgiveness occurs when the sin of adultery is honestly and sincerely confessed from the heart (1 John 1:9). I want to reach the world with the Good News by equipping the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association with resourcesincluding personnel, materials, support services, buildings and moreto urgently respond to every opportunity to share Jesus Christ with others. But I think it was a deeply human betrayal. It made me face up to what Im doing, and where Im intending to go. Happily, the Word of God says: "The blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." ( 1 John 1:7) Jehovah willingly forgives even serious sins if we have a proper, repentant attitude. Makes it tough sometimes to focus, write etc. Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists, Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists, Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Catholics have cited this text as support for the . Wow, did I pick the wrong night to go to bed early and watch Bleak House! And for some reason, so did your daughter. If true, it may mean that whenever a believer judges and condemns others for some sinful action or attitude, the one passing judgment maybe judging and condemning the very thing in themselves. How about forgiving yourself!! Try me and know my thoughts! *g*. I put up a good front, but I go home feeling awkward and more unsure. I hope you will think about this. Which brings me to this questionIf eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was a bad thinghow would they know whether what they were doing was good or evil, if that tree was what supposedly made them aware they were doing either? There was a time when I did that very thing; passing judgment on LGBT folks. I dont see anything in what youve said, DR, that contradicts anything in what I wrote. No true (in your words mature) Christian would ever stop believing. In that process, and on to the present (where Im in my 50s) the number of things I absolutely *have to* believe to consider myself a Christian has dwindled to what can be counted on the fingers of one hand. and your posts. Or does God still pursue them as he does the rest of the world who have yet to believe? Sheep are silly animals. USA Trump Man on Twitter: "When I accepted Christ as L, I wont speak for John, but I can confidently speak for myself that I read that line with great comfort instead of ire because I do not believe that Christianity was ever meant to be as hard as some/many organized groups have made it to be. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY, says the Lord. At any time, God can and will forgive the sin of departing from Him, if the sinner wants forgiveness and genuinely repents. Would that excuse make your conversion less amazing if you were never a true unbeliever to begin with? The reason, first of all, is because of who He was. (Thats not me being glib, by the way. Answer Matthew 6 does not teach that our eternal destiny is based on our forgiving other people; however, it does teach that our relationship with God will be damaged if we refuse to pardon those who have offended us. I am not the only person who feels this way. To see your most cherished beliefs crumble before your eyes and the world as you know it fall away is incredibly painful and difficult. I never said that the move from Christianity to atheism or any other belief system is an act of immaturity. As for the Adam/Eve story. You can can say you have some things in common with God. I kinda figured that just wanting to get another take on it. And with my projects, there are some with which Ive remained involved and active. When you experience God, you experience grace. I dont know if he would call himself Christian, but I know I have experienced God speaking to him and working through him. You didnt give up on Christ because Christ failed you. I can believe we can stubbornly refuse to reengage God. dear Jill, dont sweat it in a world of squandered years and opportunities, most people can look back and say the same thing. What Does the Bible Say About Forgiveness Of Sins? - OpenBible.info He has, after all, presented himself in mortal formas the Son of Manwhich he knows automatically renders subject to question the idea that he is in fact the creator of man. He sold Jesus as if he were a slave. Why Do Love and Forgiveness Have to Go Hand-in-Hand? So long as one desires to repent, to get his or her life back in order spiritually, God will always forgive. It was a confusing time in my life spiritually and because I trusted him so much, the belief that I couldnt get back to God locked in and took me years from which to recover. Also forgive me for being a Calvinist. I would think this was what Jesus was talking about when he said there will be many who claim him as Lord, but he does not know them. The Sins That God Cannot Forgive - My Catholic Space Very much the same thing as how I described the son. I did nothing different, its just one of the ways a neurodegenerative disease can get interesting. He knows how we get. I have even reached a point where I had no faith in my life. If a degenerative disease is indeed the true cause, then it seems not to be a question of volition. As a result, we desperately need God's forgiveness. I think we can trust God to love us no matter what deep shadows of doubt we might journey through. Judas? Toll Free: 1-877-247-2426. Not to be overly glib, but I see church and a relationship with God as overlapping but independent issues. The Devil, Judas (and if you believe they are historical persons, Adam and Eve) had. The unforgivable sin is called unforgivable because it refers to an individuals final and ultimate rejection of Jesus Christ (Matthew 12:30-31). Also the very existence of all of us who are atheists or agnostics or something else who were previously (true) Christians raises the theological issue of if (according to Christianity, since we dont believe any of it) you can be saved and then lose your salvation or if those atheists/agnostics/etc. I think that is for good reason. Can every sin be forgiven? | U.S. Catholic Apparently raising thedeadjust isnt enough for some peoplebut whatever. He said, "Morality may keep you out of jail, but it takes the blood of Jesus to keep you out of Hell.". And see if. Of course. With a UCG.org account you will be able to save items to read and study later! Live Now | Online Holy Mass/ "the Pilgrim's Mass" - 14th Sunday in Ordinary Time, July 09, 2023 - 9:30am. In the first passage, the nation of Israel was told they had sinned and needed to repent, acknowledge God, pray to Him and seek Him. Deep down I dont think theres any sin God absolutely will not forgive. A person can come to that place either by simply drifting away or by sharply turning away from God in angry hostility. 21 Bible Verses about God Not Forgiving - Online Bible I apologize for upsetting you, Jill. Then they end up deconverting. One of the readings that day was about the unpardonable sin. At the conclusion of the reading, my friend turned to me and said, I think I know what it is.. Brittnei Schaeffler (@brittneirae) on Instagram: "I just want to encourage someone if you are feeling down today or wondering why to even bother - ." Some people have committed gross sins and wonder whether God can forgive them. I didnt say it was insincere, inadequate, or wrong. What is the unpardonable sin? Like any parent with a petulent, rebellious child he understands and loves even through the tantrums (toddler or teenager), knowing that we might come back stronger when we really see what Hes offering. no, no: I knew I had that wrong. I went to sleep a Christian and I awoke an atheist. No it is not fair. If so, why? Or deciding that someone elses brand of Christianity is far more immature than yours, and that explains why they no longer follow it. Why wasnt she healed (Charismatics are often all about the faith-healing either in tandem with or apart from medicine) when so many are? She was a person, and a lot of people are like her. Or would you choose the option that I am not and never was a Christian? Your logic is severely flawed. They did this because they desired to maintain their power and their hold over the people who were beginning to believe in Jesus as the Son of God. I tried to do everything right, I genuinely loved and believed in Jesus, and I wanted desperately to make him happy. -We should forgive others. They thought they did, but what they thought ended up being overturned, upended by the events that unfolded. I find it helpful at times of great pain to read some of the psalms. Was he an mystically enlightened human being? Allie (and others), you might enjoy this Sufi poem about The Perfection of Allah. I dont have any firm ideas about God, but Him being both a lover of the soul and a stubborn, difficult, argumentative pain the ass is an intriguing combination of ideas. But once the Holy Spirit has eradicated forever your reason to doubt who I am by awakening within in you the certain knowledge of who I amonce I have moved, in other words, from an idea outside of you to a reality inside of youthen well, then were bonded for life, because the truth will then be a part of you that you could no longer willfully reject than you could eject your stomach right out of your body.. Why? God is love. If youre holding a party and inviting everyone, but they lock the door from the outside and refuse to come in, whos not being welcoming? "When I accepted Christ as my savior I was forgiven all my sins past and future. We dont know the conversation Judas had with those who paid him, but I can bet all my shekels that they lied. And neither can any non-Christian, since you cant reject from your life someone whos never been in your life. We love him, so we do as he says, and we do as he does. I believe even if you left God completely, you can still come back to him. By I obviously read it differently than you did Nathaniel, but I can guarantee he was not saying the believer was immature. Not just moments; I think doubt is often an ever-present element within the life of faith. Youre not required to pretend you know things to be true when you dont. I certainly dont believe that God will condemn me for being hurt, for feeling emotions that He made and put in my heart. Id not stress about it, we seek what we find and if your heart and mind are open to the Holy Spirit, youll experience it. But I disagree. Its that everyone who has the blinders that our human life put on us fall away will see more than we ever imagined, and truths we couldnt understand. Those who work to alleviate suffering are therefore in communion with God, whether they themselves believe in God or not. In my 30s I finally left fundamentalism behind for good, saving my sanity and self-respect. Is There a Sin God Cannot Forgive? - David Jeremiah Blog And apparently this UCC is the only open and affirming in my community, so, Like I said, its a process and I dont give up, if only to put my doubts to rest finally. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. What does it mean to know God? I know Im not the only one who was deeply hurt by the you were never a Christian line. Nehemiah 9:17 (NASB). Sometimes he felt like there was no God, or all of it was nonsense. But I see now that from your perspective, the importance difference between you and such people is that youre right about whos a Real True Christian, and that theyre wrong. I myself have had times of doubt and held on to my faith by a thread. (* Id say the same about most religions.). Of course you will say this is evidence that I wasnt a mature Christian. I mean why would you care what I think about what you used to think about something youve outgrown? Seeing those words you typed Matt, and I gave a little shudder. We must name the sin that we committed and call it sin. Or, are you filled with bitterness and have a spirit of revenge against those who wrong you? REALLY have faith.. that there REALLY IS a reason for everything. Selah. . In Christian hamartiology , eternal sins , unforgivable sins , unpardonable sins, or ultimate sins are sins which will not be forgiven by God. What do you mean by immature, then, if neither insincere, inadequate, nor wrong? I dont think anyone, other than Jesus, knew exactly what was going on. Of course youd be hurt and not understand. People at his church would act awkward, not admit to ever sinning, and blame the problems on him. What is the unforgiven sin? I meant to include in my previous comment this link to a post I recently wrote in response to the accusation that my apostasy is the result of a faith that was somehow lacking. I am learning to REALLY connect to God. Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldnt leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? are still saved, neither of which is all that palatable, so you try to solve this instead by convincing yourselves we were never really saved in the first place. Is when you purposefully work to do damage against the work of God. It isnt describing hurt feelings it is describing pure hate. We forgive because we love Jesus. If there's no repentance, there can be no forgiveness. What is the unpardonable sin? What sin won't God forgive? Sometimes I think if I had the insight and wisdom that you have, DR, I might be able to get supremely cool with Christianity, or at the very least not having to search for it anymore. Please bear with me in regards to articulating things, spelling etc. In an effort to nurture, deepen, and strengthen my faith, I transferred to Westmont. If, to be a real Christian, one has to always *know*, beyond any doubt, that ones beliefs are correct well, I think thats asking a lot. -Teach this and spread the good news. Or a God like this. So thats how you commit the unforgivable sin of denying the truth you know about Jesus. The Character of God There are many passages in the Bible that speak of God's forgiveness. Like I said, it is not God cutting us off, we cut ourselves off. Organized religious expression of any flavor is such a mixed bag for me. When he has found it, he carries it on his shoulders, rejoicing. In my view, Gods Unconditional Love for us is irrevocable and unchanging, in the final analysis, I think my disposition in eternity will be the result of my own choice. Would it be fair to say that they must have never been a true follower of that religion if it was so easy for them to convert to Christianity? We all knowas do you, Im sureChristians who use their relationship with the Holy Spirit within them to function and be in the world in a way that makes the world a better and kinder place. Third, the hotel construction dare I say it? All Rights Reserved. Glad to hear. Not a hair falls from your head without him knowing And one day you will be able to ask Him why you were put into the fire.. and lastly? For years he was the one I relied on with my whole being. When Jesus was being crucified, he was rejected by a whole heap of people. Throughout my life, Christian friends (good wonderful people, like so many of you here) have pointed to the beauty of the Holy Spirit and those who are inspired by It the good deeds, brave deeds, selfless deeds, dangerous deeds, and sacrifices made by people inspired by The Spirit. Sorry to shatter your bubble, but some of us really were Christians. Reagan good. Thats it. I think your words are worth way more than 2 cents. I had a very deep personal relationship with Jesus. And interestingly enough, if I forgive you, I'm untying a knot in me. Romans 12:17-21 (NASB), Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . (But maybe you meant what you wrote to be a response to one of the comments?). Nonetheless, when weighed on the Big Scale, and from what I see as empirical evidence in the history books and in the world around me today, I believe the world is worse off because of Christianity*, and at some level that fault lay with the construct, or the actuality, of Christ. You raise your hand when you think others want you to. I think if some of you try, this pray for your unbelief. At any time, God can and will forgive the sin of departing from Him, if the sinner wants forgiveness and genuinely repents. Another thing I would like to say, is all though this will go contrary to things in history. And, of course, Christian = good. Why did God forgive David (2 Samuel 12:13), but not Judas (Matthew 27:3 David explains that his body was wasting away and in pain. What Is the Unforgivable Sin? | Desiring God Perhaps you shouldnt if your goal is to estrange all of your ex-Christian fans and followers. Congratulations. They may have forsaken ideas about God. Although these accusers knew that Christ was the Son of God, they accused Him of being a fraud. We have discovered that forgiveness is at the very core of the character of God. I would have hoped that your experience with that would help you see how thats a game where the only winning move is not to play. Jesus said this directly in response to the Pharisees actively trying to undermine his ministry and his message by purposely equating his works with the works of Satan. They can look back and say X made me do what I did, but thats a cop-out. All sins. Read Romans 3:23, 24. Daniel 9:9 (NASB). Nehemiah 9:17 is an especially important one because it reveals the character of our God as a forgiving God. First John tells us that when we confess our sin, God "is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" ( 1 John 1:9 ). Youre angry at God? I dont think the Holy Spirit always comes with a gold cross stamped on it. What Judas did was more along the lines of taking a bribe, and he likely thought that there would be a vastly different outcome, maybe along the lines of Jesus finally exerting his military might and beginning an insurrection to finally throw of the usurpers/Romans. * It feels that Christ, which is not the same as Jesus for me, has failed humanity because believers in Christ, when taken en masse over the centuries, and when viewed today, seem inspired only to make our little planet far less humane. I guess John Shore just have the following definition of mature and immature. So in the Bible Jesus names one sinand one sin onlythat cannot be forgiven. Talking helps, thanks for indulging me. He will forgive every sin a person confesses. I did so because I needed to be healed from the brokenness that drew me into some false religion that felt very true. But are those actions unpardonable? Actually theres a bit where Jesus says Judas is necessary to whats to happen, but that for Judas it would be better if he had never been born. Permissions 2022 20 Nov "One of the questions I'm regularly asked is, 'Pastor, can I commit a sin that God cannot forgive?' According to Jesus, there is one sin a person can do for which there is no. Rohrer Removed, Rabell Approved for Reinstatement. Christians shouldn't get depressed? Read more from Billy Graham on blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I clung to Catholicism as a lifeline through various emotional traumas, which I dont wish to discuss here. Matthew 12:31 " Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And yet, I cannot point to a day in my life that I was not a believer in something bigger, grander, and more enlightened than me. I do have an answer for what I am going through.. I dont think people should have to worry that their doubts are somehow putting their souls in jeopardy (by this unforgivable sin business). So thats interesting: you believe theres a God, but one whos not interested in this world. I dont think you blaspheme the Holy Spirit when you step away from an experience that feels devout if it didnt truly bring you any kind of liberation or redemption from destructive states of being in the mind and heart. Instead, by a simple prayer of faith ask Him to come into your life todayand He will. That is pretty stern rejection on that end. Etc. A bunch of great ones on there, No apologies necessary, were buds. In other words, does it have to stay unpardonable? The first step is to admit our sins. I dont believe that applies to me. Think of it: Before you go to bed tonight, you can know that God has forgiven every sin you ever committed! Wait until we come to our senses. To that end, I look to people I respect, believers and unbelievers alike, who are willing to examine the tough questions about faith and ethics and religion while doing their best not to put God in a box. Each that Ive tried on has felt two sizes too small. John, I have a lot of respect for you and your voice in the Christian community, but I am frankly shocked by the conclusion youve come to in this post. "God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" ( John 3:17 ). In my opinion, if you can use that excuse for former Christians, cant you use it for any kind of conversion experience? Second, the talk about heaven being the place she belonged has never comforted me, but if it comforts you, by all means embrace it. Whats the point of resistance? When a person places his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, all of his sins are forgiven. Jesus tended to draw misfits, the social outcasts, the not exactly pure of spirit or repuation. Be glad in the LORD and rejoice, you righteous ones; PrivacyPolicyTerms ofUse. I dont mean evangelizing or proseltyzing; I mean if someone asks, you simply say Yes, I am a Christian or N0, I am not a Christian. So Jill, you are a Christian because you say you are (I believe thats what Im getting from your comments), and you were not before because you say you werent. And in whose spirit there is no deceit! Sometimes when Im laughing at it afterwards I could swear i can feel God laughing along with me. If you want to know Allah, be prepared for the mess He leaves in His wake.. God inspired John to write, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). For if atheists like me reject Christianity for similar reasons as the former Christians, we must be doing it for immature reasons as well. My thought was There probably is something here, but everybody who has said they believe in Christthe JWs, the Baptists my mom was with before I moved to Dad and the JWs, Fred Phelps, etc. I could go on. Very cool. You have disappointed me. You can still repent of your sins, and ask for help with your unbelief. Im saved. Is it so hard to believe that the designer of our universe could in a divine sense fall into any one of these categories? What about the Sheep that was lost? And Im hoping youll be toowhat with you having so extremely outgrown it and all. He never sins. Apparently its not been as easy as Id hoped it would be. California Coastal Commission bad. BUT I have FULL faith, God is in control. People will be born there, and people will die there. And yet, I believed that my trying and following the prescribed rules of my church was the ultimate way of Gods big seal of approval. This means that God will forgive the sin of adultery, lying, anger and all other sins, except the unpardonable sin, if the person is sincere and honest from the heart. He became more like himself. I guess I missed the part where you clarified what you consider to be mature belief. And the proof of that is the reason you lost your Christianity. Well, John, I wasnt too worried about being hosed until now! But Christ seems unable to inspire His followers, and that feels like His failure. And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (12:30-32) I hate to equate God to a politician, but in this case I see God as like the Cosmic President of Everything that Ever Was, Is, or Will Be. Argh. Why is it so serious to reject Christ? You can regain what was stolen from you. Well with Adam and Eve, they messed up. " King James Version (KJV) < Previous Verse Next Verse > View Chapter Matthew 12:31 Context The reason a statement like you made draws ire is because its kind of offensive that you, a stranger think you know more about the state of the inside of my mind than I do. How can the sin of adultery be forgiven? - Is the sin forever? What's the Unforgivable Sin? - Billy Graham Evangelistic Association With the help of a lot of people, I realized I hadnt but it took me years to recover my faith from that one statement. When Jesus died on the cross, He died to pay the penalty for all of the sins of the entire world (1 John 2:2). My biggest concern is in my struggle to forgive others. But he told me, Somehow, through the whole thing, I would keep praying. That cant be right, but somehow it is. What a great discussion! I was reading an article providing a pretty sound exegesis of this verse, and they posed the question, How evil can someone be to be literally right there, in front of Jesus, as he is healing people, and compare what he is doing to the works of Satan? I believe once I am forgiventhats it. But there was a reason why Jesus had to go through that. I hope I am making myself clear, because to me there is a huge difference. The unrepentant will die in a lake of fire at the end of the age (Matthew 10:28; Revelation 20:14-15). Eternal Sin - The Spiritual Life Its an ongoing thing ah well. Interesting question! There is also a dogmatic side to the. I dont believe we can cause God to cut us off. What Are the Hardest Sins to Forgive? - Crosswalk Unforgivable sins? Here's a list - New Haven Register Is there a sin that God will not forgive? Repentance is absolutely necessary in order to be saved. Id like to add a little to your point about people who used to believe, John. I was devout as well and I walked away from that experience.
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